Nekoliko pitanja o srusenim zrakoplovima

potez XXV

Pozdrav

Da li je sigurno da je mjesto pada dolje navedenog zrakoplova Omiš u Jugoslaviji kako se navodi u tablici na ovom linku:

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/schenck/yu_losses/losses.xml

date of crash: 17/10/1944
aircraft type: B-17G-50-DL
serial: 44-6419
unit: 772nd BS/463rd BG
markings(name): 'Lil' Liz II'
pilot: Gail McCoy
crash site: Omis, Croatia
note: Mission to Blechhammer; out of fuel

Prema podacima koje sam dobio na forumu "The 463rd Bombardment Group" mjesto pada bi mogao biti Ornis , Germany:

"This is the information I have on the crew and crash site:

According to records, the aircraft went down near Ornis, Germany, out of fuel.

The listed crew was:
Gail McCoy
Harry Izen
Chauncey Hoyt
Charles Bores
Robert Dobeski
Royce Kelly
Edward Mettler
Eugene Ruley
Robert Rush
Pershing Yarborough

I do not know if any of the crew perished but I do know that McCoy, Dobeski, Kelly were POWs. I'm not sure about the rest of the crew.

That is about the extent of the documentation that I have available to me currently.

Joel"

Namjerno sam kazao "bi mogao biti" jer drugi clan foruma daje izvadke iz dnevnika njegovog oca koji govore da se zrakoplov srusio u Jadran:

"Oct 17th. Target Bleckheimer, Germany. Ships took off loaded with “R.D.X’s” ; due back at 3:00 p.m. They started to straggle in at four thirty. Three of my ships, #271, #419, and #377 did not return. About 7:30, #271 came in after spending eleven hours in the air, with enough fuel to last just seven more minutes. A severe storm broke up the formation, which scattered.

#419, with Bob Dobeski, Bores, and Miltler aboard, was forced down in the Adriatic. We are still sweating them out. #377 came back early this morning (8:00 a.m.) after landing and refueling at an emergency field in Yugo-Slavia. #271 had quite a tale to tell about climbing the face of a mountain so closely that they thought the props would hit. All instruments were “out” and no navigator aboard.

Loaded 250’s this p.m.

Oct 19th. Mission “scratched”. We thought #419 had “ditched” and that Dobeski and the others got out, but later reports do not confirm this. We don’t know where they are at 6:00 p.m. this evening. Showers on and off all day. 250’s again tonight.

Jan 26th. “Non-op”. Overcast – mission scratched at last moment as usual. Helped unload #385 and load practice bombs into her. Understand we may move back to our own area in a day or two. I really hope so. Forgot to mention yesterday that “Lute” informed us that “Dobeski” has finally been located. He’s a “P.O.W.” We’re very thankful.

Hope this helps some.

Ron Rood "

Da li postoje nekakvi podaci koji bi 100% potvrdili da je mjesto pada Omis a ne Ornis?

Takoder me zanima da li postoje jos nekakvi podaci o ovom zrakoplovu:

date of crash:27/08/1944
aircraft type:B-24J-1-DT
serial:42-51292
unit:762nd BS/460th BG
pilot:2/Lt Northcross, Samuel, H - pilot | RTD
crash site:Omis, Yugoslavia
note:Mission to Blechammer, NO.4 shot out by flak on bombing run, all engines cut near Yu coast, all b/o, rsc. by partisans

Zahvaljujem

zbocek · Gost

I Dick Drain (5th Bomb Wing: History of Aircraft Asigned) i Roger Freeman (The B17 Storry) navode Ornis bez države; međutim, Aviation Acheology navodi Yugoslavia, a oni prodaju MACR-ove i podatak vjerojatno potiče otud. I na jednoj drugoj listi navodi se Yu kao mjesto pada.
Poznavajući Schenka, vjerojatno je imao dobar izvor.
U Dnevnim izvješćima GSOS nema zabilježenog slijetanja na more taj dan.
Tako da ti jedino preostaje nabaviti MACR i vidjeti što tamo piše. Ili kontaktirati Schenka i vidjeti izvor podatka.
Iz vlastitog iskustva mogu reći da ima netočnosti i kod Draina/Freemana i u MACR-ovima. A vrlo često je dostupan samo podatak o lokaciji gdje je zadnji put avion viđen, a mjesto pada/prinudnog slijetanja može biti jaaako daleko.
Nije vjerojatno da bi ostao bez goriva nad Njemačkom, osim u slučaju oštećenja rezervoara zbog pogodaka, ali tad to obično piše kod oba autora. Uobičajeno su bez goriva ostajali nad Hrvatskom. Zanimljivo da nigdje ne piše gdje je taj Ornis koji navode..
Nisam baš puno pomogao, nažalost. Ako budeš trebao pomoć oko narudžbe MACR-a, Mission Reporta ili War Dairy-a, javi se na PM.